E-mail Roundtable: Losses make us forlorn!

Ralph Malbrough:
Listen, to me it says alot about the Saints that they had 4 turnovers, lost their coach, let Earnest Graham run for 100 yards, and yet still were in position to win. They were a train wreck and still almost won.
They'll be ok but they do have a couple issues.
1. Kevin and I chatted on the phone about Olin Kreutz and I asked, "What if the Saints looked at him and said. Yeah he is struggling in Chicago but their line sucks. But him between Evans and Nicks and he'll be fine." Not bad theory but in practice it's a fail. Teams will figure it out if they haven't already.
2. Defense is a blitzing team that can't get sacks. Bad. Gregg Williams ain't changing so I'm not sure what changes they can make except hope it gets better and hope is not a plan.
And by the way, I thought the first down play calling in the second half was awful. The Saints ran up to gut against a defensive line that was whipping them.
Just because Drew Brees didn't get sacked doesn't mean the line didn't play like crap.
3. Saints can't afford to have a bumpy month because the 49ers are winning 12 games with their defense and schedule.

Wang:
Absolutely BRUTALLY demoralizing loss. I haven't done shit today except mope, and that's how I plan to spend the rest of my day. I hear you about "Yeah, but they still almost won" but there are no moral victories, and even if there were, I don't see anything about yesterday that would qualify. The Saints got their asses handed to them in all facets of the game by a team that's mediocre at best. Division game, 3rd straight road game, pissed off opponent looking to bounce back from a trouncing, I don't care about any of that stuff.
I think I'm finally ready to come over to the dark side (and/or jump off a bridge) about the defense. I've been trying to defend them and stay optimistic that they'll get better, but I'm just about done. They're not gonna get any better, not without yet another infusion of personnel. And I don't trust them to hold anybody, ever. You guys were right all along. We got sold a bill of goods on the so-called "new and improved" defense. They're slow, old, undisciplined, weak, and soft. Tracy Porter flat out blows at this point. The linebackers are atrocious. Roman Harper isn't even very good at Roman-Harper-stuff lately. There are no pass rushers on this team. None.
Kreutz is terrible. Absolutely wretched. Complete whiff of an acquisition and he ought to be not just benched but released. Give me Brian de la Puente over this guy, if you refuse to play Tennant.
Lots of people blaming the offense this morning and trying to absolve the defense. Sure, turn the ball over 4 times and only score 20 while not running the ball for shit and you don't stand a chance. I get that. And it certainly wasn't a good day for the offense either. Plenty of blame for everyone yesterday. But that speaks to the larger issue, no? We're right back to 2008 where if Drew isn't 100% supernatural and the offense doesn't put up 30+, we've got no chance because the defense is all-but-fucking-helpless out there.
The good news is that I do think the offense will continue to put up 30+ more often than not, and I still fully expect the Saints to win 10+ games and the division. But the defense is circling the drain. Most of the time it looks like they're just hanging on for dear life out there.

Ralph Malbrough:
Wang, I'm not into moral victories either. I guess the only point I'm making is Saints dropped a big fat F- on the road against the second best team in the division and still almost won which means the division is shit.
I want different guys to bitch at on defense at least. Play Wilson more, play Gallete more. I also think it may also be a case of the NFL figuring out Gregg Williams. As Mike Lombardi says, "The Saints need Gregg Williams to have a great game plan to succeed because their personal is average at best."
Your point on Porter is dead on. Jesus, he looks like Ashley Ambrose on his second tour with the Saints. Old and slow. Just because he is young doesn't mean his body isn't shot.


Kevin Held:
Does Payton just hand over the draft reigns to Gregg Williams this off-season? Basically say, "we're going for defensive improvement." And will Loomis sign a LB this off-season? I'm saying off-season because it's patently obvious that these guys are interested in riding and dying with the defense they have.
We beat ourselves in this game, especially on offense. We ran up the middle for nothing so many damn times I thought I was watching Coach Conlin's later Brother Martin teams. BA-ZING!
Long story short: Saints need to skull drag the Colts and Rams. If they can't beat those two teams, we might as well relegate the season to a dogfight for a wildcard birth and a trip to San Fran or some shit.

Ralph Malbrough:
Gregg Williams is AWFUL at personal decisions. If the saints want to rebuild the defense in the drat fine but Williams can't have big say on players.

And listen, they tried to fix the d-line with Franklin/Rogers. And it might be a case of Vilma and Will Smith getting old at the same time. It happens.
Wang, I do think they'll be better than 2008 on defense just because all the blitzing will create some weeks where they get turnovers. And I'm not convinced teams can just cram the ball down their throat.
Besides Patrick Robinson is anyone on defense having a good year?

Wang:
Yeah I don't think Gregg Williams ought to be the guy making those decisions, but I'm not sure it ought to be the regular Saints braintrust either. Sedrick Elllis? Just a guy. Tracy Porter? We'll always have 2009, but he's just a guy too. Malcolm Jenkins? Last year everybody thought he was on the verge of becoming a perennial pro bowler, and by no means have I given up on him, but this year he's looking like just a guy. Cam Jordan? Too early to tell, but I don't have much hope that he's gonna be anything more than just a guy. Patrick Robinson has been looking pretty good so far this year, but time will tell if he's anything more than just a guy. I've defended Roman Harper for 5 years, because he doesn't suck nearly as much as people say, but if you combine his + production as an inside the box guy and his - production in pass coverage, you've got... just a guy. Usama Young? Just a guy. Martez Wilson, Jo-Lonn Dunbar, Jon Casillas, Junior Galette, all just guys. Al Woods? Ha!
This administration hasn't drafted for shit on D. I mean we're talking about 3 first round picks, 2 second rounders, 2 third rounders over 6 drafts, and the BEST they've done is "just a guy." (Pending Jenkins/Robinson, I concede that it's too soon to tell there.) Just a guy ain't nearly good enough, that doesn't get the job done. Not with first day draft picks. So I'm not sure who they ought to hand the draft over to and say "Draft us a defense" (oh by the way, without a first rounder) but I don't think he's "in the building."
Hell, for that matter, it hasn't been much better with acquiring vets either. Vilma gave us a couple good years (and I'd make that trade all over again) but he's always been a little overrated, and evidence is starting to mount that he might be done. Alex Brown? Shanle? Fujita? Simoneau? Dan Morgan? (Ha!) Bobby McCray? Franklin and Rogers? All just guys at best. I'd call Vilma a "hit" and I'd definitely call Greer a "hit." (Of course, they kinda lucked into Greer because Ron Bartell wouldn't sign with us.) Sharper was lightning in a bottle for 1 year. (And for that matter, they lucked into Sharper too because Gerald Sensabaugh wouldn't sign here.) Fujita and Shanle maybe qualify as "hits" just for the longevity of their contributions, even though they're average players at best. But there's been just as many if not more misses. And even the hits are just "meh" for the most part.
Honestly I think the whole franchise is pretty much rudderless as far as defense goes. I mean, look no further than the last two drafts. It comes out this week that they had their eye on Adrian Clayborn, but then when Tampa took him they went with Cam Jordan. Could the two players be any more different? And in 2010, they were drooling over Jerry Hughes, but then when the Colts take him, they completely switch gears and go with a corner. I know they'll scream "BEST AVAILABLE PLAYER REGARDLESS OF POSITION!!!" and that's fine and all. But at the same time, it could be taken as an indication that they're directionless. They don't have a firm goal, they're not sure who they want to be or how they want to construct the defense. They just plug in guys and hope for the best.
It's not that they don't try, because clearly they've been trying. Over and over again. But they haven't hit a single home run (except the inside-the-park home run on 2009 Sharper.) It's like the best they can hope for is to occasionally stretch a single into a sliding double.

Ralph Malbrough:

Yeah the defense acquisitions have been mostly bad. By the way Jerry Hughes is a big pile of fail right? At this point who's the best player on this defense through 6 weeks?
I have no idea really as no one has stood out except Robinson.
I do think they will be able to create a pass rush at home. They did against the Bears and late against Houston. Their pass rush is alot like the Bears offensive line. Cutler gets protection at home(Like last night) but get that shit offensive line on the road in a full stadium and it falls to pieces.
Saints defense might be the same. A loud Dome crowd, o-line has to go silent count, etc. At least at this point it's the only hope I got Wang.
#hopingformiracle

Wang:
Junior Galette!!! Heh. Yeah, I guess it's gotta be Robinson so far. Hell, he's got 2/3 of the whole team's takeaways. So... uh... yeah I guess it's him. Him or Shanle.
The whole Payton thing has the potential to be a big, BIG deal too. 8 weeks before he's even able to get up on crutches? Ouch. That's mid December, and even then they might not want to risk Payton being on the sideline if he can't move and get out of the way when another play comes his way. He gets rolled up on again and it could cripple him for life. So where does the buck stop on the sideline now? Who's in charge down there with Payton in the booth? Gregg Williams? Drew Brees? Maybe I'm overreacting, but I think potentially it could be almost as big as losing an actual player. An important one. And that's just on gamedays. He's not gonna be able to crack the whip at practices either. The lack of mobility could be a huge limitation as far as being able to monitor players' performances effectively during the week, and of course that's what a lot of his gameday decisions are based on. Etc. etc. etc. It could be a huge hinderance to his effectiveness as a head coach, in lots of different ways. And don't even get me started on the V word.

Yesterday did one hell of a number on me. My head is exploding over here. I'm all "OH SHIT!!!" about EVERYTHING right about now.

Ralph Malbrough:
Payton issue is HUGE DEAL. I think the biggest thing I worry about Wang is when the Saints are struggling and he is in the booth and not on the sideline and can't go over to the o-line and communicate to them about a blitz pickup, chew ass, etc. It's a huge deal but I think having Brees makes a huge difference. I think Brees can sort of do the whole Peyton Manning QB/coach thing at least on game days as far as sideline stuff for the offense.
The more I think about it though the more it worries me. The over/under on how many games Payton is on the sideline the rest of the year is 1. I'm taking the under.

Kevin Held:
You know how you're always talking about "the little signs from the football gods" or how certain teams "get the lucky bounces or the right calls at the time"? I think/fear we'll be looking back at Jimmy Graham getting shoved out of bounds into Payton's knee as a turning point.
/unsubstantiated rabble'd
Dave Cariello:
Saints are fucked....

Andrew Juge:
You guys all sound like a whining wife. The Saints just went 2-1 on a 3 game road trip and lost to the Packers. Big deal. 4-2 is an acceptable record at this point. The Packers proved last year it's all about getting hot late. The Saints can win on the road if Brees gets hot. Does the defense blow? Absolutely. Are they going to stay at a .5 takeaways per game ratio? Doubtful. Brees is still healthy and I'll be SHOCKED if they aren't 6-2 in two weeks. Then it's Tampa at home again. They'll be ready for that one. Are you guys still going to be crying at 7-2? It's all about making the playoffs. Sure I'd prefer home games, but none of us should be that picky. Playoffs beat no playoffs. After that, it's all about 1 game at a time.
If the Saints were 2-4 or even 3-3, with @ New England and vs. Atlanta coming up... Then yes, id be panicked like you all. But they're 4-2 with Indy and the Rams. 6-2 doesn't get anymore cupcake. If they lose either, then I'll panic. At 6-2 they'll be in terrific position.
You're telling me down the road you don't think the Saints can win in Detroit, San Fran or New York if they have to? Please. The only team I'm not convinced they can beat is GB and they almost did this year.
Ralph Malbrough:
I really like your grades this week, especially on Charles Brown. I can see why the Saints picked him and also why he dropped to larte 2nd Round. He'll look so good for two plays be mediocre on 3 and awful on 1. I can definitly see how a Saints coach would watch his college film and say, "I'll get him to play consistent."
I'm wondering about Payton's injury and my biggest concern is if he struggles physically in the booth to call plays effectively would he give up play calling duties for awhile? He's said in the past he loves calling plays and would never delegate them. I just wonder if he would be capable of saying, "You know my leg is so fucked at least for the next two or three weeks I'm going to game plan during the week but on game day I'm go to just be like Joe Paterno and oversee everything from the booth."
We really don't have any template for how a team handles this.
Andrew I think you right to say the Saints are in ok shape. The St. Louis game scares the shit out of me though. Their offense is moving the ball and I think they'll still win 3 or 4 games.

Wang:
Vicodin, bitches!

Ralph Malbrough:

Whatever it takes Wang. Do you think at any point the rest of the year someone else will be calling plays for the Saints?


Kevin Held:
As the chief officer of the "St. Louis Bureau" I can assure you that the Rams' offense can't move shit. Literally. They're all about bowel obstructions up here. These cats are fucking useless. Now if Brandon Lloyd shows up in Week 7 and has a good day and helps open things up for the Rams, THEN AND ONLY THEN, I might be worried. I'm more worried about the hapless Colts then the Rams.

Ralph Malbrough:
Wang, has the President of #wegotthis resigned? Great read and I think you have like a 80% chance of being right.
The only argument I can give is I think the 2008 secondary was a crime against humanity
Jason David
Randell Gay
Mike McKenzie
Kevin Kaesviharn
Roman Harper
Josh Bullocks
I'm saying Greer/Robinson/Porter at CB is way better and so is Harper/Jenkins at safety. 2008 defense couldn't do shit and Gary Gibbs bend/don't break was the equivalent of asking to get kicked the balls repeatedly while hoping the person would eventually miss and you could limp away. At least Gregg Williams blitzs will eventually at least I think lead to run of turnovers. 2011 defense can maybe start to create some big plays(not like '09) but something. If I don't see any the next two weeks then I'll admit you are 100% right.
I guess the difference is this year at least I can scream for Jenkins, Greer, Robinson or Harper to make a play. In 2008 we didn't even have that hope. Oh and Brees wants to get paid. I don't think we can underestimate that.

Wang:

Nah, he'll be back I'm sure. He's just confused and irritable right at the moment.
As far as this defense vs. 2008? I'd love to agree with you Ralph, and I definitely agree that there's no reason this team SHOULDN'T be a shitload better than 2008. Problem is, it ain't exactly working out so far....
2008: 23rd in total defense, 26th in scoring defense, 393 points allowed, 30 takeaways (15 INT, 15 FR)
2011: 17th in total defense, 26th in scoring defense, 403 points allowed*, 11 takeaways* (8 INT, 3 FR)
*on pace for that over 16 games
On pace for one third as many takeaways and 10 more points allowed. Over 2008! Yikes!

Ralph Malbrough:
Wang, I think the next two weeks will tell us a lot as far as the defense. If they can't get right against the Colts and Rams and improve those awful projections then It's 2008 part II.
If they can't hold the Colts/Rams under 20 points and create at least two turnovers per game then daddy will need to buy more crown for the rest of 2011.
Andrew Juge:
It blows my mind that this team only has 3 interceptions. Considering the accuracy problems of Josh Freeman, Cam Newton, Blaine Gabbert, Matt Schaub and Jay Cutler, how the heck do they only have 3 picks?!?! Aaron Rodgers was the only guy that was dead on accurate all game long. Schaub was like that for a half. The rest were all over the freaking place. Some of the incompletes we've seen in those games miss their targets by miles. Some of that has been poor luck, some of that has been bad hands by: Jonathan Casillas (at LEAST 2-3 times), Shanle (at least twice), Roman Harper, Malcolm Jenkins and Patrick Robinson. All those guys have dropped picks this year. Casillas has been hit in between the numbers twice, including once where he juggled it before flipping it to a Texan for a touchdown. I just don't understand that total. It would be one thing if the DB's were getting shredded by superior QB play, but that's not the case. If anything, I think this defense has been fortunate the accuracy of the quarterbacks they've played hasn't been better. I feel like the LSU DB's would have had 8-10 picks by now with the same balls.
I'm going to go ahead and offer that the Saints lack playmaking potential and HANDS on this defense. No one can catch. Sharper's 9 picks, most of which came in the first half of the season, made a HUGE impact in 2009. Jenkins through 6 games now has ZERO. That's the answer to improving this defense I think. Jenkins needs to be less of a headhunter and more of a ballhawk. That's what will turn this thing around. I'm convinced of it. I'm not sure if he's capable of that, and if he isn't, maybe he needs to get moved to SS and we need to find a better ballhawk at FS.

Kevin Held:
HONEY BADGER knows how to ball hawk!
/goes back to work

Ralph:
I'd like to publicly thank Wang for sending me the stat comparing the 2008 and 2011 saints defenses which gave me my Friday column idea. By the way I know it's not Saints related but I'll be so pissed if LSU loses to Auburn because the Honey Badger had to get high. I was so looking forward to reading Peter Finney write two weeks of columns waxing nostalgic about the Bear and Charlie Mac leading up to Sabangedon. Seriously, Pete Finney's book on the history of LSU football is one of my favorites.

Wang:
Well, I'd like to thank the email roundtable for prompting me to look it up. I probably wouldn't have thought to do it otherwise. I was replying to your email when it occurred to me to do that. Can't wait to read the Forecast. And is there a podcast tonight?
LSU's not gonna lose to Auburn. I mean, I can't think of 3 bigger players to lose all at once than Badger, Tharold Simon and Spencer Ware. Damn, that's an awful lot of talent to lose. I'd almost rather have lost Jefferson AND Lee. But LSU will still win, just by half as much as they would have otherwise. And you know Les would rather cut off his own balls than let the suspensions affect the Alabama game. So I suspect this will all blow over by next weekend

Ralph Malbrough:
Just wanted to give you props, and I think LSU wins I just think it's close. The great/awful thing about college football is every game is basically an elimination game. I think LSU/Alabama have looked unbelievably awesome because the SEC is absolute garbage after LSU/Bama/Arkansas.

Kevin Held:
"I think the Saints play mad and run the ball down the Colts throat. You read right, I think the Saints run the ball a lot against the 30th ranked run defense." -Ralph
AH-HA! My mad ranting got to you!!!

Ralph Malbrough:
It did. Of course you know we're both wrong and Payton will be calling 50 passes while in his wheelchair.

This week's chain gang e-mail!!! (8/5)

RALPH:
This week's email chain begins

The Saints resigned Carl Nicks today which means the only two big Saints FA left are Jonathan Goodwn and Dave Thomas. Regarding Nicks I'm really torn about giving him a long term extension because if the Saints are going to pay both guards 8-10 million what position do they not pay? They can't pay everyone. I lean towards paying them both because if you have something that's the best you keep it. Nicks/Evans are both Top 5 guards so I'd rather them keep their elite interior line and cut corners at LB or as strange as it sounds offensive tackle. Brees is so good at getting rid of the ball on time and avoiding sacks I'd argue Saints can get by with B- OT

I just said it over at the Chronic that if the Saints resign Goodwin and Thomas all that's left to satisfy me is a DE and depth at DT. I'm not so worried about LB as some others are. I think Saints can win with Vilma/Shanle/Wilson but I'm not sure they can win with what they currently have at DE which will include 4 game Smith suspension. And the fact that Jordan is still unsigned isn't good either.

Also I love the Falcons signing ray Edwards as I think he is a mediocre DE who benefited from playing in Minnesota with 3 Pro Bowl lineman around him. I didn't want the saints going near him.

The Eagles getting Cullen Jenkins was a tough because of the price they can cut him after 1 yr. Saints still need depth at DT

I'm not sold on Michael Vick winning anything and he won't play 16 games. When Vince Young needs to win them a December game all this 'Eagles won the off season' will be forgotten.

WANG:
Good stuff, Ralph. I was gonna email you a little while ago and give you props for being right about DE > OLB. Turk McBride is an exciting signing IMHO. Loomis still might have something up his sleeve, but I get the feeling that you're right again and that the Saints will continue to go cheap at OLB. Will Herring, Danny Clark, Shanle, Clint Ingram are your vets. Casillas, Tez Wilson, Dunbar and Marvin Mitchell are probably your young guys. Probably not a whole lot more on the horizon there. And I guess that's fine, probably what I should have expected. The Saints have been "just getting by" at OLB for half a decade, I'm not sure why I ever expected them to change that strategy now. I'm betting now that they're just gonna cross their fingers and hope Casillas and Tez work out. Again, I don't have a problem with that because OLB is clearly the least important position on the defense to the Saints braintrust, and it's served them just fine so far. And you've gotta cut corners somewhere, can't have 53 pro bowlers.

Dave Thomas is a must-sign. Goodwin is a would-be-nice but IMHO not necessarily a must.

I'm not worried at all about Jordan. He'll be in camp sooner than later. Judging by the twitters, seems like he's as pissed off as anybody that it isn't already done. I think it's a non-issue, it'll be resolved any minute now.

I'm ashamed to say that I got caught sleeping on McBride. Dude's got Shaun-Rogers-like "impact in limited playing time."

DE is in some serious flux right now. They need to bring Charleston back. And I'm beginning to wonder about whether or not Will Smith is gonna play for the Saints this year. 4 games is a long time, and Smith makes a lot of $$$ for 12 games max. Just sayin'.

The Eagles hype is really starting to annoy.

If any of you assholes scoop me out of this before I get a chance to put together a blog post on it tomorrow, I will kick you in the nuts. But I really REALLY like what the Saints have been doing to fix the special teams coverage units this offseason. You've got "Reis Nuts" and Casillas coming back from injury. Re-signed Prioleau and Roby. Brought in Amaya, Herring, Johnny Patrick, Nate Bussey and maybe this DeAndre McDaniel dude sticks because of ST. Now I'm not sure they keep Casillas on ST if he's the starting WLB, and I don't know if Roby makes the 53 if Sproles returns punts and kickoffs. But still. Even if you don't count those 2 guys, the Saints' coverage units are likely to be RADICALLY different this year. Improvement? Remains to be seen. But clearly a balls-out effort to fix that problem. Now let's just cross our fingers and hope that Payton is right and we're all wrong about Greg McMahon being a terrible ST coordinator.

KEVIN:
Thank you for starting, Ralph. Beat me to it.

Sorry for the diversion, but: FUCK Mike & Mike. I'm driving to work and nearly swerve off the road cause those two clown shoes have the audacity to suggest that Andy Reid is a "real good coach" and that anyone says otherwise isn't looking at things clearly and doesn't know what they're talking about. Bullshit, fellas. They were naming all the other accomplished coaches of "the era" and not one of those dipshits mentioned Sean Payton.

In his first year as a head coach, Payton beat Reid in the playoffs. Why? Cause Andy freaking Reid has the clock management skills of an impatient toddler.

So if the league was stripped of all its coaches and the teams could essentially "draft" a new head coach, based on current results up until now (guys currently coaching), where does Andy Reid fall?

1. Bill Belichick
2. Sean Payton
3. Mike Tomlin
4. Jim Caldwell / Peyton Manning
5. Mike McCarthy
6. Rex Ryan
7. Tom Coughlin
8. Andy Reid
9. Mike Smith
10. John Harbaugh

After that it's an absolute shit show. I wouldn't touch Shanahan now with a ten foot pole.

And speaking of the Eagles...Mike & Mike then had the audacity to suggest that the Saints were the FOURTH--let that sink in--best team in the NFC, behind Green Bay, Philly and Atlanta. I know everybody slurps Ashmongudusuduasd whatever his name is (including me), but that doesn't mean Philly is more a threat to win the NFC than the Saints. And Atlanta? Are they fucking high?!?

Eagles will get credited for "winning the off-season" but that's nonsense. If the Saints aren't up there, it's ridiculous. And the NFC is basically: 1. Green Bay, 1a. Saints ... 3. everyone else. Am I off in this line of thinking?

Theme of my post: AUDACITY!

RALPH:
Kevin I'd agree about Reid but I'd put him #4. To me he's alot like Les Miles. He's fantastic but his one flaw when it comes up is a burning herpes sore on super model. It can ruin you. I mean Reid runs that team and never forget he is really good at kissing up to the media with his aww shucks fat guy act so they love him. The Redskins won a bunch off off season titles too.

by the way this line slayed me...Cause Andy freaking Reid has the clock management skills of an impatient toddler

now onto Wang…

I won't scoop you on the special team angle but it's a good one to talk about. I really think Payton is finally giving Greg McMahon no excuses. If we don't see improvements this year I really think he goes to the chopping block. My worry about McBride is the Ray Edwards reason. Was he benefiting from the Lions very loaded D line? Suh is just a fucking freak and I watched most of the Lions games and by week 3 teams were like, "Suh gets double teamed or our QB will be dead."

I think McBride's ceiling is 2008 Bobby McCray. In '08 McCray started 8 games and had 6 sacks. I'd sign up for that right now.

Is McBride the Saints 'big move' at DE? I hope not but my gut says it probably is.

If Dave Thomas isn't resigned where do saints turn for TE help?

WANG:
"If Dave Thomas isn't resigned where do saints turn for TE help?"

BUCK ORTEGA!!!!!!! Drew still owes him a TD.

Tyler Lorenzen!
Shawn Ryan!
Nate Lawrie!
Eddie Boo Williams!
Lamont Hall!
Hoby Brenner!
John Tice!

But seriously..... ZACH HILTON!!!!!

RALPH:
Problem Solved!

Eddie Boo Williams dropped that TD against the Bengals in 2002 and I'm still very bitter about it.

Should Saints pursue Osi Umenyiora of the Giants via trade? New York wants a #1 which the Saints don't have but I say even if they come down in price it should still be no. He's been injury prone the last few years and the Saints already mortgaged a bit of the future for Ingramania. It will be totally worth it but I think they shouldn't trade any more of the 2012 draft away.

WANG:
Around my house, we refer to him as Osi HumanUrine. And while it would be BIG FUN to be able to say that several times every week, I think I'd pass too.

Bring back the Vanilla Gorilla and call it a day. (Unless the plan is to part ways with Will Smith, which I admit might be a little far-fetched, I'm just saying that if they DO do that, then you've probably gotta make another move.)

DAVE:
The Saints will definitely need to re-sign David Thomas. There is currently no depth behind Jimmy Graham. Without Thomas, they're fucked at tight end.

But I want to know whether Heath Evans is coming back or not? Do you think he's pooping in his pants right now? Do you think Payton refuses to re-sign him because he blew Payton's cover on the whole Drew knee surgery story this off-season?

RALPH:
Dave, I'm not sure what to think about Evans. On the one hand you are completely correct to think Payton would not resign him because he doesn't toe the line and Payton bullies everybody to do things exactly how he wants even the media. On the other hand I can't think the Saints wouldn't sign him if they think he's the best guy for them.

My guess is it's Payton/Loomis knowing they can make him sweat because Heath Evans isn't in high demand by other teams and it sends a message of, "Do what we tell you and SHUT THE FUCK UP AND DON'T TALK TO THAT SAINTS BLOG CHRONICLES OF CANAL STREET OR WHATEVER THE FUCK. "

I'll be interviewing Drew Magary of Deadspin and Kissing Suzy Kolber this week (Thursday).

What do you think Saints fans would want to hear from him?

SAINTS NATION:
Heath Evans will be back. I feel pretty strong about that. Locker room presence, character, combined with the fact that the fullbacks they have in training camp right now aren't as good as what they had last training camp (Zak Keasey & Jason McKie).

I'm getting pretty sick of this Cameron Jordan routine. He was pretty much handed a starting spot when he was drafted. Alex Brown is over the hill, and Will Smith is going to be suspended the first 4 games. He has almost no competition for a starting role. He was guaranteed a starting role until he pulled this holdout BS. His agents need to get this done TODAY, period. Who cares about 3 years guaranteed vs. 4 years, if Jordan plays the way we all expect him to the Saints will pay him the length of his first contract regardless of what's guaranteed. The bottom line is that every single minute he's out of camp, the more behind he gets. This isn't a 7 year veteran we're talking about, we're talking about a rookie who's never even smelled a down in the NFL before. He needs to be there on time. I realize the lockout delayed things but for F's sake there's only 6 guys left unsigned. What is his agent waiting for??? The pick ahead of him and the pick behind him are gone. He needs to sign TODAY. Enough is enough. I thought the new CBA was supposed to fix this bullshit.

RALPH:
Mike Florio on PFT had an interesting solution to the 'I want 4 years guaranteed' issue. Teams could guarantee years 2-4. It basically means everything is locked in because what team will cut a #1 pick who gets injured this year in camp? But team can save face and say, "We didn't guarantee the whole contract"

Andrew you are totally right though, everyday he misses he'll be less and less of a factor. And the Saints I'd argue need Jordan to be a big factor especially early with Will Smith likely to sit the first month.

Andrew is fired up now about Jordan missing time but when do we hit the high digits on the Official Dave Cariello Chronic Panic Meter* on his holdout? I say if Jordan is not in camp by Friday it's a 9 for me...that's threat level Orange for those using the terrorism scale.

*The Official Dave Cariello Chronic Panic Meter is sponsored by Yahoo Fantasy Sports and Crack Cocaine

KEVIN:
Maybe Jordan's agent is trying to strong-arm things knowing that Will Smith will miss games?

And I'm with Dave on Heath Evans. Payton's definitely letting him twist in the wind.

RALPH:
I think the agents of rookies are probably trying to set the precedent with the first batch of new rookie deals that while the money is lower the contract is guaranteed. Think of it this way, if most rookies get 4 yrs guaranteed this year then next year the agents say "Well everyone did it last year." And GMs realize rookie contracts will grow over time and while that extra yr may not be so much now it might be in say 2018. So they want to hold the line.

Anthony Hargrove possible departure makes me even more nervous about D line. That position is looking extremely thin to me.

WANG:
"Anthony Hargrove possible departure makes me even more nervous about D line. That position is looking extremely thin to me."

TOM JOHNSON, BITCHES!

RALPH:

If Tom Johnson has either a preseason sack or a regular season tackle you can pick the song and I'll sing the first two verses on the podcast.

Wang's optimism brings up a good question: Who will be surprise cut and who will be a surprise guy to make the roster?

Courtney Roby is my surprise guy to get cut. Not a shocker but I think he'll be squeezed with Sproles able to return kicks and special team depth Saints have added

Surprise guy who makes it: Clint Ingram gets healthy and pushes hard for a roster spot

By the way I know it was the 1% douche bag fans that smiled over Jim Henderson fainting at Saints camp because of his Bush Commentary but Henderson is a treasure all Saints fans should appreciate. He's over 60 and won't do play by play forever much less his commentary and once he's gone the Saints will find some 30 year old kid to do play by play who paints his face and yells Who Dat between plays who Benson can pay nothing. Most NFL teams are going towards running their own radio network and owning the station the teams games are on. The Redskins do it and while fans hate the teams print money doing it.

Eventually the Saints will do the same. Hell Benson already owns Fox 8. All I'm saying is enjoy Henderson because when he's gone listening to the Saints won't be the same and there won't be any objective voices left in the regular media.

WANG:
The whole "Henderson deserved what he got for talking shit about REG-GIE!!!!" thing was absolutely disgusting. Some people just don't deserve to breathe.

Surprise guy who sticks: Jared Fayson (the new Adrian Arrington beats out the old Adrian Arrington)
Surprise cut: Dare I say it? Chris Ivory? Can't make the club in the tub.

I'm not saying I'd WANT that. Hell, stick him on PUP and then IR if it comes to that. Just pulling a bold prediction out of my ass is all.

KEVIN:
Actually, when I saw Wang's tweet about Hendu getting on a golf cart, I just made the "Did he make sure to back over Reggie's corpse this time?" joke, not knowing he had a heat stroke or anything. I wouldn't dare try to crack on Hendu about his health or anything bad happening to him. And Ralph is spot fucking on about "enjoying it while it lasts" with Hendu. He makes us seem big team in the broadcast booth. Who could possibly replace him?

As for cuts: I'll go out on a limb and say the safety from Clemson, just to be goofy

Don't know about a surprise keeper. Clint sounds fine.

RALPH:
I will not even acknowledge the who could possibly replace him? Because I don't want to consider it because that future is dark and scary. I think the way Kevin described Henderson 'He makes us seem big team in the broadcast booth' is about the best way I've ever heard him described. Henderson could have been a national play by play guy and was for a few years. He just likes living in NOLA and didn't feel the need to go to a bigger market. So the Saints have an A+ play by play guy because of a lucky break.

DAVE:
Ugh, what if Deke, Hokie or Bobby replaced him? Oh, dear.

Also, what's going to happen when Jerry Romig dies? Who will do in stadium announcing?

RALPH:
And suddenly the 'Chain' turns into Deathwatch.

Ok, I'll bite...

When Henderson retires all Saints fans should get on their hands and knees and pray WWL radio has as little say in Henderson's replacement as possible. I find their Saints coverage just above poor. They never break news and my mom is more objective. But if you love homerism and pom pom waving then WWL radio is fantastic.

Ken Trahan would probably walk through glass to get the Saints play by play job but I'm guessing Saints go young and keep and it's someone not local. My hope is Henderson would maybe decide to retire from WWL-TV but keep doing Saints games and as long as he stays relatively healthy he can go into his 70's? Hell the Astros have an 83 year old doing their radio play by play although baseball is different.

I'd guess the guy how does Hornets games and announcing at Saints games Romig doesn't do wold take over everything.

KEVIN: 
I'll be honest: Jerry Romig has a good voice, but I can't understand a god damn thing he says in the Dome. Could it be his voice or is it the system?

DAVE:
I think it's the system. "COOOOOOOOOLSTON!"

RALPH:
Roming is one of the touches that make Saints game so fantastic. By the way one of my most favorite yet overrated experiences every year is going to/watching Saints first preseason game.

I'm always geeked for it and then like 10 minutes after it starts and Chase Daniels is taking snaps and Drew is on the sideline smiling I'm like, "Stupid preseason game." Although that first SuperDome hotdog is glorious I tell you GLORIOUS.

Read on Bucstats.com that Da’Quan Bowers' trick knee is looking delicious and dude is tearing shit up. What is everyone's thoughts on the Bucs going into 2011?

I think Josh Freeman will be better than Ryan eventually and blount and Williams give them a nice offense to build around. I'm guessing they regress to 7-9 , 8-8, but Freeman for some reason scares me way more than Ryan

KEVIN:

Uh, Ralph, Bill Simmons' legion of devout interns contacted me and demanded that Mr. Freeman from here on it be called "Jaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaash!" Freeman.

Yeah, he looks impressive. I don't know yet if I'd put him above Matt Ryan. Speaking of Ryan, ESPN has some new QB calculation that lists Matt Ryan as one of the 6 elite quarterbacks in the game, along with Brady, Manning, Brees, Rodgers and Vick. Are you kidding me? Boot Ryan. I'd be tempted to boot Vick too, due to injury concerns.

But I definitely see the Bucs regressing. I can see them going 8-8, with Freeman maybe saving them on one of those games. They'll still be a tough out in Tampa.

RALPH:
(Cam) Jordan signs! I can stop worrying about DE until I see the Saints play a preseason game and make snap irrational judgments off of 10 plays by the #1 defense.

KEVIN:
What? No love for Tory Humphrey? Our tight end troubles are over!!!

WANG:
Aubrayo Franklin dickwads!!! Just hand us the fucking Lombardi now!

RALPH:
Yes YES YES AND FUCK YES!

From Bill Barnwell Football Outsiders/Grantland:

Why: Because he doesn't rush the passer or accrue stats in his role as the nose tackle in the 3-4, Franklin has flown under the national radar. He lacks the elite athleticism of Haloti Ngata or the massive frame of Albert Haynesworth, but no interior lineman in football is better at reading blocking schemes and manipulating the offensive front. He creates double-teams by occupying two offensive linemen on most plays, freeing up Patrick Willis to make plays behind him. It's safe to say that he's popular with his teammates; as Willis noted during the 2010 offseason, "I pray to God they keep Aubrayo."

Why not: Franklin really has only two seasons of dominant play underneath his belt, and they both came in contract years. (Franklin was franchised by the 49ers after the 2009 season.) The 49ers are trying to get the word out that Franklin's 2010 season wasn't all that great, but if he did slip, it was only because he was downright incredible in 2009.

Switching to 4-3 could be a concern but Saints under the Double G are all over the place formation wise. This might seem strange but I think the Saints just got better at LB.

They now have two huge DT Rogers and Franklin to clog the middle while the LB roam free or Harper blitzes.

This is the best FA Period ever. NFL needs to do this every year.

Sign Goodwin and Baconator and this Bitch is ready to ROLL!

RALPH:
AND (now) THE BACONATOR. Just awesome. Having a kick ass GM running my football team is great and makes watching Ed Wade of the Astros huff paint thinner while doing trades appreciate it even more.

KEVIN:
Aubrayo? Sounds like a hard to pronounce/spell name! I win!

RALPH:
On twitter someone asked if this Saints defense with all the new additions would be the best Saints Defense in 10 years or maybe 20?

I say it could be best since 2000. That defense was spectacular at one thing, sacking the QB. The Saints had 66 sacks that year. It's still the NFL record for sacks in a season I think.

3 guys (Darren Howard, La'roi Glover and Joe Johnson) all had double digits with Glover dropping 17 and putting on a display no other DT ever has in a Saints uniform. He was an unblockable force. The game in St. Louis that year was his master piece; 4 sacks including the game clincher. That team had Sammy Knight in the secondary and Keith Mitchell made a Pro Bowl. Besides that not much besides an old Darren Smith and Darren Perry.

This year's team I think could be a wall against the run because of DT(Rogers, Franklin, Ellis) and great at safety(Harper/)Jenkins and good at corner. I'm not so sure they'll be as dominant in one area as that 2000 team was at killing the QB.

Still this team was Top 5 last year and they are clearly better at DT. So expectations are right to be sky high?

WANG:
Damn right expectations are sky high. I feel like a douche for going all "19-0!!!" with it (again) but seriously, holy shit. When I saw that Pat Kirwan was saying yesterday that the Saints have basically built the Ravens' defense from 10 years ago, I popped a huge chubby.

The sky is the limit. The next 6 months are gonna be some serious fun. In my opinion, this team is not just a little better than the 2009 team, it's a good bit better. I'm not sure Tampa is really ready from primetime just yet, and Atlanta blew their shot last year. EVERYTHING went right for them last year, just like it did for the Saints in 2009. It was "their year" and they blew it. What was it, 5 games they pulled out of their asses on dumb luck? They're gonna regress this year.

RALPH:
I really like Pat Kirwan because he is a hard core tape watcher not just a Peter King, "I write a column so you think I know shit but I don't really watch actual games."

Wang here is where I think the Saints plan on defense is brilliant. Injuries or poor performance could make it not unfold but on paper it's awesome and here's why:

The Saints offense will score a crap load of points with Brees so what's the book on how to beat the Saints? Pressure the crap out of Brees and pound the ball on the ground with your offense to shorten the game.

Well on defense the Saints literally have a fucking ton of DT that says, "Run it at us bitches. You'll get stuffed like my granma's bellpeppers and oh look Drew just hit Jimmy Graham and it's 14-0. Still want to go 3 and out? Didn't think so. Now Double G is going to unleash blitzagedon on you because you have to throw."

Rinse and repeat until at least week 6 when teams give up running? Nice.

Plus the experiment at DT is a one year thing so if it works..Lombardi if not no long term commitment By the way the additions at DT make me think Double G will get the absolute best out of Martez Wilson.

KEVIN:
Does Kirwan have a Twitter feed? The only NFL guys I follow are Schefter, Breer and Glazer, and I'm considering dumping Shefty.

Look, the 2009 defense was built on turnovers; taking chances at turnovers. I remember us saying during the preseason and even early in the season: even if we're middle of the pack, I want a defense that is prepared to KILL! KILL! KILL! (KSK'd). Sure we'll get beaten big on some plays, but I'd rather be seen as aggressive. We just wanted a wake up from the Jason David "error." #imakethefunny But now we may have a defense that can have an effective blitz AND stop the run? And we might be making strides in pass protection? Yeah, I'll go 2000.

We have a playoff team on paper.

And if Breesus cuts back on the INTs, we can all ask the Philly fans to tell us how our ass tastes.

WANG:
Shit, you're not aiming high enough, Kevin. This defense is finally gonna be able to pressure the QB without HAVING to blitz. Even better. Which isn't to say that GW isn't gonna unleash the hounds, because of course he will. But being able to pressure the QB with the front 4? There's your turnovers. And far fewer dump off options over the middle with RBs & TEs. Malcolm Jenkins is about to turn into Ed Reed, and McBride and Ellis are both fumble producers (along with Roman Harper who's also a fumble producer.)

This shit is gonna be nuts.

Oh and Ralph, I need you to do me a favor while you're interviewing Big Daddy Drew. Pick a thing he says about the Saints that's negative but true, and tell him I said [BostonGuy]NO ONE DENIES THIS!!!!![/BostonGuy]

RALPH:
Nice. I'll also be asking him who isn't real; Him or Rex Ryan? Ryan just got fucking tattoo on his leg so clearly either Drew is a writer who secretly coaches the Jets or Ryan is a coach who secretly writes. They both can't possibly exist.

Also when and how does a team go from warm, cuddly, and everyone loves them to I FUCKING HATE THEM, THEIR FANS, THEIR CITY, THE COACH, AND I HOPE THEY FALL DOWN A WELL. The Pats were America's team in the NOLA Super Bowl in 2001. Now...they are pretty much loathed. Send anything else you want asked my way. I'm open to ideas and want to hit this one out the park.

KEVIN:
Yeah, extend that parellel to the Saints. I mean, Drew's a Vikings fan. Shouldn't he have hated us in 2009? KSK really didn't blast us that much. Even in 2010. Hell, anytime Brees gets mentioned, everybody has an ongoing joke about how nice he is.

RALPH:
Does anybody have Matt Roth fever? Oh I do. He seems like the perfect guy for Gregg Williams. Versatile and gives the Saints more depth at DE. Of course part of me hats that the signing would make my podcast with Magary an afterthought today but whatever...MATT ROTH.

Mickey Loomis is maxing out the 'Sign a Veteran who wants a title' credit card. GOOD TIMES.

KEVIN:
Ralph, Simmons' legion of angry interns have said Billy Baroo owns the term "good times" apparently and no one else is allowed to use that phrase…ever.

Chain Gang Debut

This is hakimdropstheball’s weekly debut of the ‘Chain Gang’. It’s an email chain featuring Kevin Held, Ralph Malbrough from WWLTV.com, and GrandMaster Wang from Moosedenied.com. Here are their thoughts on the week the Saints had and anything else NFL that crossed their minds.


Ralph Malbrough:

Wang, my post lockout/free agent preview will be tomorrow. My main guy I think the Saints chase is Andre Carter of the Skins. He's old (32) but Haslett ruined him with the 3-4 plus he had 10.5 sacks under Double G.

Besides that I'm not feeling big splash as I think they are going to expect draft picks to upgrade LBs and will focus on signing their guys and saving for Brees contract.

On a scale of 1-10 what's the odds of the Saints doing a "Holy Shit they just signed Insert name) and I just had an orgasm at my desk" moment

I say 3.


Grandmaster Wang:

Hell yeah, time for us to get back to work too. Can't wait for everybody to start getting back into the swing of things.

I was thinking an OLB moreso than a DE, but then again, Will Smith won't be available until week 5. I was thinking they'd go with Jordan & Brown until Smith gets back, with Charleston & Galette backing them up. And I think they could probably get by with that. I still think Charleston is underrated and could handle the increased role. But I damn sure wouldn't complain if they brought Carter in.

I do agree there probably won't be any kind of big splash, obviously, we're up against the cap. But with Wilson being a 3rd round rookie, and Dunbar and Mitchell not being much to hang your hat on, and Shanle probably gone, I'm kind of expecting them to sign a vet LB. And I do think that some people are gonna be kind of surprised that it's a bigger name than people are expecting. Like for example, everybody's expecting Rocky McIntosh, but instead they splurge and sign somebody like Pozslusny instead, and people will be going WOW, didn't see that coming. Probably the day after they release Reggie. Much like earlier in the season when they released Shockey and then the next day signed Rogers.

I agree it's not likely though. Just a hunch.

I was talking to a friend the other day about this.... I kinda hope Cleveland releases Fujita and the Saints sign him back on a cheap 1 year deal.


Ralph:

My issue with Pozslusny besides he has the Buffalo taint on him is he's always hurt. I much rather McIntosh. Fujita is the same thing but it'd be a PR homerun. If the Saints did make a big move I think it would be DE and they could justify it by saying, "Smith is on the downside and we might cut him next year anyway. Let's add a young vet to pair with Jordan going forward." I just hope it's not Ray Edwards of the Vikes. I think that guy

benefited from Williams Wall and is not elite player. So I really hope the Falcons get him.

And here is name to keep in mind: Randy Moss

I know the guy looks completely done but I think Moss is a guy Sean Payton would think,"I'll swap him out for Devery and Drew will keep him in line. I think I can get a good year out of motivated Moss."

That'd be a holy shit type move.


Granmaster Wang:

I hear you on Poz, and maybe McIntosh would be the better signing. It just wouldn't be as "big" as far as fan reaction, Poz has that white guy following going for him which would have Saintsreport waving their miniature American flags and shit. I've got no problem adding a vet DE either if that's what they do. I'm a little torn on Moss. I totally believe he can still play, and that he's still possibly the best deep threat in the league. It would definitely be a holy shit move, but I'm not sure I see it happening and I don't at all like the whole "I play when I want to play" thing. He doesn't have any interest in blocking, and with all the screens we run... and also the whole thing about not running his fucking route when he's not the first option. We all know how Payton/Drew spread the ball around, and also how many times Drew decides while he's in the pocket to go to a 2nd or 3rd option, and if Moss didn't run his damn route....

Kevin Held:

I always thought/heard/believed that McIntosh was overrated and that Poz would be good on a contender. He was supposed to be great coming out of college (Penn State), right?

Wang, I'm with you about Moss -- still has the big play capability, but doubts will always linger about his drive. Even on a 'holy shit' level offense like the Saints, I'd spend too much damn time watching Moss in formations, wondering if I'll spot him "giving up" on a play when it isn't going to him. I'm not interested in pulling a Collinsworth, I just want to watch the ball! #simpleman

And I'm absolutely thrilled they signed that Clemson guy. My 'Guy Who Knows A Guy' said the Saints were thinking about drafting him on Day 3, but ultimately guys came to them that they couldn't pass on. The fact that he went undrafted allegedly surprised them and they've kept their eye on him. He's supposed to be a lock to make the team, barring anything catastrophic.

Ralph Malbrough:

Kevin I agree about McDaniel as to me speed is so over rated at safety because they play so far off the ball. Sammy Knight couldn't run but he always was able to get to the play on time. The kid from Pittsburgh they drafted late is the guy I'm watching because Saints need a better pash rush and I'm not as sold as Wang as Charleston & Galette to contribute heavily. Although I want Charleston to breakout because Hansdat and me christened him 'Hobo with a shotgun' and I want to be dropping that reference all year long.

The Saints could also go in the division to get LB with Anderson from Carolina although I think his price could higher than Poz and McIntosh.

What Saints leaving would upset you the most? Wang it's obviously Reggie as their love affair is one for the ages. I think for me it would be Goodwin for as having a center with no starts(Tennant) scares me to death.

Grandmaster Wang:

Ha! Goodwin is a good choice because if Drew's getting pressure up the middle all year long that fucks the whole offense right to hell, not to mention the increased injury risk to Drew AND the inability to run it up the gut ever. 3rd/4th & short, etc. So it's hard to argue with Goodwin.

BUT at least Goodwin's backup was the consensus best center in the draft 2 years ago (okay, 2nd behind Pouncey, but he's a G) and did a good enough job protecting Matt Ryan back at BC. And he's pretty much penciled in as the future starter anyway.

What do you do if you lose Roman Harper? You literally have nobody to step in if you lose him. (This McDaniel dude notwithstanding.) And as much as people bitch about Harper's weakness in coverage, 99% of the time that's not what they're asking him to do anyway. And he's one of the very best in the box safeties in the league. MUCH larger step back if you lose Harper, IMHO. There's literally no other option right now. And I'd assert that any other realistic available option you MIGHT be able sign is likely to end up being a downgrade.

So Harper is definitely #1 for me. And I'd say Lance Moore is at least equal to Goodwin (2a/2b) in importance. He's the modern day Eric Guliford, only about 10 times better. Remember when you could just about take it to the bank that if it was a key 3rd down, the ball was going to Guliford? And he never, ever failed to catch the ball and get the 1st? But even Saints fans were all "Guliford's just a guy. So what?" They do the same thing with Lance. But he's by far the most clutch wideout the Saints have. He's not the best, but he does not let you down. Ever. Need to move the chains? If all else fails, Lance will hook you up. And he's underrated as a big play guy too. Lance has made as many big plays (meaning big yardage) as anybody. I think Meachem is gonna blow shit up this year, and I think Arrington deserves some looks in the regular season too. But Lance has earned it, and we'd miss him a hell of a lot more than anybody's willing to admit, IMHO. Dude's "a football player."


Ralph Malbrough:

You sold me hard on Roman Harper Wang but I'll stay with Goodwin. Here is my question with Lance..why didn't other teams offer him when he was restricted and Saints only tendered him at 2nd Rd compensation? I think other teams look at Saints Wr as system guys. To me if I was St. Louis, Detroit, or San Francisco I get Moore to help my young QB. He won't be huge cost either.

I will say Wang if the emails I'm getting about my column are any indication a majority of fans will tell Harper good riddance but of course the question is if not Harper than who? And by the way Gregg Williams is great coach but awful talent evaluator as he begged the Skins to bring in Adam Archuletta and then the guy sat on the bench because he couldn't play Williams defense so if Harper walks I hope the Double G doesn't get much say in his replacement.

Final question of the day; Are we completely comfortable at running back?

Thomas, Ivory, and Ingram on paper look great but they all have injury concerns. Ivory worries me the most as dude had serious foot injury and lockout meant Saints couldn't monitor his rehab like normal off season. Ivory's running style is so brutal(in a good way) the Saints almost have to be very selective about his touches as he's just as likely to run over the safety and give us an ESPN highlight as he is to dislocate his own shoulder. Hell he might do both on the same play.

To me Ivory running play is like a great bourbon. It's fantastic but can get ugly in large quantities.


Grandmaster Wang

Sorry for the delayed response. Had a credit card ganked the other day, been trying to recover from that. Fuckin' IHOP. Pretty sure I got the dude fired though. High five!

I agree that other teams view Saints wideouts as "system guys" and aren't as good as Payton/Brees make them look. I'm glad they think that, but that doesn't mean they're right. In my opinion, they're dead wrong. Hell, Saints fans think the same thing. They look at Lance, and he's not particularly big or fast or strong or whatever, and they say let him go because anybody else could do the same thing. Bullshit. Would Lance be as good with a crappy QB throwing to him? No, but neither would anybody else. It's a 2-way street. How much better does Lance make Drew look? Takes 2 to tango on that. Somebody's gotta run a killer route, get open and catch the ball.

(editor note: Moore resigned with Saints)

The Harper thing is stupid too. People need to get over Seattle already. Harper was in an impossible situation that day. That tends to happen when necessity dictates that a player has to do something he doesn't usually do and isn't his strength. It would be great if Harper was Ed Reed or Troy Polamalu, but he's not. And if he were, the Saints wouldn't be able to afford him anyway. People need to get off his fucking case for not being absolutely perfect at everything. Most players aren't. But Harper's as good as we're gonna get for now, and he's plenty good enough. As long as Jenkins is healthy, Harper is perfect at SS for the Saints. There aren't any realistic upgrades out there.

I'm totally comfortable at tailback. More than comfortable. Giddy. Dancing a jig. As soon as they release Reggie, I'll be of the opinion that they did EXACTLY what they needed to do at the position, and we're exactly where we need to be.


Ralph Malbrough:

So you aren't the least but on edge because of the running backs injury histories? By the way I twittered earlier "safety Quintin Mikell got 4yrs/28 million from Rams, has the baseline for Roman Harper been set?"

Last night on the podcast I asked Dave what he wanted to be talking about next week and he said, "How Awesome Ingram looks" So what are fair exceptions for Ingramania?

I say 1100 yards and 10-14 scores. Basically 2006 Deuce. I have to think Thomas and Ivory make a 12-1400 yard season not likely.

My theory on preseason is you can only tell if if team sucks or could be great (2009 Saints) everything else is worthless. But we watch and look for clues and signs anyway. What is one thing you want to see to make you think 2011 will be better than '10 and what would you see that made you go, "Nothing's better hell it might be worse."

I'll be looking at offensive line because I figure we should at least see flashes of better run game. Just like Deuce's debut after Ricky left. He ripped off two 40 plus yard runs and everyone was like 'No worries. We are good.' and Deuce didn't play rest of preseason because the coaches KNEW he would rock.


Grandmaster Wang:

Nope. Not the least bit on edge because of the injury histories. Not one bit. Ingram's and Pierre's are both overblown, and I can't bring myself to get overly concerned about the injury history of a guy who's 3rd on the depth chart until the other 2 are out for the year. Injuries are gonna happen, it's inevitable.

Ingram: 3000 rushing yards, 30 TDs.....by Thanksgiving.


Ralph Malbrough:

Wang you nailed it on your Reggie Bush leaving post. You said all along the Saints could get something for Reggie and they did. I always figured he'd force their hand and test the market. If it's more than a 5th round pick Loomis goes to another level to me.

Will this trade finally make message board guy realize the Saints can't trade Devery to Chicago for two second round picks and Lake Michigan?

Miami had to make this move. The wife is a huge Dolphin Fan and I've watched every Miami game the past three years and the worst thing about them is they are BORING. Jesus are they dull. Their offense was fun and exciting with the wildcat for like 10 minutes. For the past two years it's been a Chad Henne check down and the occasional 10 yard Ricky Williams run. The coach and GM are gone if they don't make playoffs and owner is big on stars so Reggie makes perfect sense. The Bush Era was enjoyable. I'd do it all again in a heartbeat.

If Bushrod leaves to the Bears how worried do you get about the o-line?


Kevin Held:

I think the Saints already come out looking good on the Reggie deal anyway. I mean, wasn't the thought that Reggie would just walk? To even get a draft pick or a player or cash for him is great. And I'm just glad Reggie didn't decide to be a douche canoe about this, which he could have. He could have gladly said, "No, I want my money" and forced the Saints to cut him, and then the team wouldn't have gotten anything.

And if the Dolphins get Kyle Orton and another receiver, watch out. Suddenly the AFC East gets that much more interesting.

At the very least, when Shockey visits Miami, those two are going to destroy the female population.

And I know this makes come off like MBG, but why can't the Saints trade Devery?


Ralph Malbrough:

I'm fine with trading Devery but who replaces him as Saints deep threat? By the way wife said she's going to Home Depot and buying can a of teal spray paint and 'renovating' my Bush jersey.

Kevin , don't forget 'Neck beard' Orton is a first class party animal...HBO could have Dolphins South Beach and follow around Bush, Orton, and Brandon Marshall...I'd watch that.

You have drinking, and Marshall getting attacked in club by his own wife..better than Hard Knocks? Better than hard knocks.


Grandmaster Wang:

Loomis comes out looking GREAT on this. It's literally "something from nothing." A 6th? For Reggie? Who they were gonna cut anyway? Really? It's found money. And NOBODY figured they'd even get that. Hell, most people thought that when the shit really hit the fan, the Saints would be the ones giving Reggie $5MM/yr.

I'm dead serious here: The Saints offense will be LIGHT YEARS better without Reggie. Forget the $$$. It's the very definition of addition by subtraction. Every single one of Reggie's touches will now go to some other player who will make more of each one of them. Payton will no longer have to call #25 because he has to, and/or because he still (for some reason) genuinely believes that's the best call. And the team will benefit. The stats bear it out. Payton just got his blankie taken away and it's about damn time. [ricflair]Now we go to school![/ricflair]

The Phins will suck ass with Orton and Reggie. Seriously, Orton and Reggie? I totally hope the Phins are the Saints opponent in XLVI. But I won't be holding my breath. Reggie couldn't manage to be anything more than a role player with Drew Fuckin' Brees, but he's gonna set it off with Neckbeard? Really? Not a chance.



Ralph Malbrough:

I agree Wang, although I think Tony Sporano puts Reggie in good situations and I think he helps make the Dolphins offense watchable and trust me when I say that is a good thing for someone who watches Dolphins game with an Angry Latino wife. Great post by the way.

I said this on the Chronic but it needs to be said here..I think Loomis most underrated skill is his ability to know how other teams value Saints players. He resigns Bushrod but for only two years. No panic buying like say Arizona giving Kevin Kolb 63 million and Philly Cromartie and a 2nd pick...BAWWWHAAAA

I just tweeted on the Darren Sproles pursuit by the Saints; Saints pursuit of Sproles explained is that Payton vows never to run out of tailbacks EVER AGAIN because of what happened last year so he needs a 9 deep depth at RB. That's really the only explanation I can think of. Aren't Sproles and Pierre Thomas the same guy except Sproles return punts?
Grandmaster Wang:

Sproles is a smart man's Reggie.

I fuckin swear, Loomis finally has it ALL figured out. Dude is shitting gold like Drew these days.


Ralph Malbrough:

But if the Saints pay Sproles say 5 million a year that means they'll have about 13 million in RB when you add in Ingam and Ivory. Can they all be happy if tailback apocalypse doesn't happen again?


Kevin Held:

Yeah, why spend the $5 million on Sproles? For kick returns?

So Wang is basically predicting the Saints will lead the league in offense? Is there any kind of tangible prediction you'd care to make?

And Loomis HAS TO BE a Top 3 or 4 GM in the league, right? Polian, the Pats GM, Loomis and who am I missing?

I know Neckbeard loves to party, but I just think the Dolphins will be more formidable with Orton at QB. And Reggie may be more motivated in new surroundings. Or he may just fill out a change of address form for some hot babe's vag and never be heard from again. Either or really...

Ralph Malbrough:

I hate him with a passion but Belichick needs to get his due although technically he's not the GM but he runs the thing. Green Bay's Ted Thompson is very good. Remember he drafts well and had the nuts to run off Favre after Packers went almost won NFC Title.

Fearless prediction? I'll make two

1. The Baconator aka Dave Thomas will lead Saints TE in catches
2. The Saints 2011 sack leader is not yet on the roster

And with that until next week people….