Roundtable: Taste the Sweet Sweet Panic

Friday, March 2
RALPH:
Saints fans are officially getting really close to full on freakout. I'm in NOLA for a wedding and pretty much everyone after saying hello was like,"What the fuck is up with Brees? Why haven't the Saints signed him?"

People forget I'm not plugged into the Saints anymore and don't particularly like my ,"I'm not sure." answer.

By the way Wang, if a NOLA writer had written that Jason Cole unsourced joke of a piece I'd expect you to rip it to shreds. And for the record, I totally think that's Brees' agent feeding Cole made up bullshit on Loomis to ramp up pressure on Saints. Loomis' only real public comments on the Brees deal was that if he doesn't get it done he might get run out of town.

In the Cole piece he said Saints only want to pay Brees as really good QB but Cole never actually put a number out there. My guess is because if the Drew's side actually gave out the number it would make Brees look bad.

Loomis might have say offered 20 million and said "We'll make you the highest paid QB ever."
Drew's Agent: 20 million is only paying Drew like he's really good. Truly great QB should get 25 million. WHY DO YOU ONLY THINK DREW IS PRETTY GOOD?"

It's all in what your definintion of a really good QB salary is and Great QB salary is. The real reason I think it was fed to Cole by Drew's side is the whole, "Benson needs to step in" line. He might as well have said, "This ASSHOLE Loomis continues to do his job and will not just give in. The Saints need to bring in a guy who will give us everything we want before something AWFUL HAPPENS"
Nice try by Brees camp to win PR BATTLE but a fail.
My prediction?
Deal done at 2:45 Monday for 22.5 million per year 60 million guarenteed. Brees gets 60 million first 3 years of deal.

WANG:
Somebody pat me on the back for having pretty much predicted all of this over a month ago, every damn last bit of it. Heh. Seriously, I’m pretty sure I’ve never been more right on anything in my life, ever. #douchebagtootinghisownhorn
People still hate Cole for all the Reggie Bush stuff, and he’s definitely an attention-whoring douchebag of a “journalist” who sensationalizes the shit out of everything, but what worries me is that despite Message Board Guy’s repeated proclamations that “EVERYTHING HE SAYS IS FALSE!!!!” actually the opposite is true. If you don’t let him troll you and look past all the “SHINY THINGS THAT PISS ME OFF!!!” the guy always has his facts straight. Always. He was 100% right on EVERYTHING with the Reggie Bush stuff. Everything he said was gonna happen happened. The whole “Cole is a LIAR!!!” thing is a myth that was created by Saints fans (and other teams’ fans) who don’t like it when he tells them stuff they don’t want to hear.
I believe that Loomis insisted on using the phrase “very good” instead of “great.” And it makes perfect sense that he would. And I think we all know why. It’s just what happens in negotiations, and Loomis chooses his words VERY carefully, all the time. He knew exactly what he was doing, and he had a purpose in doing it. And Cole knows exactly what he’s doing by running with it. He’s riling people up and getting eyeballs on his story. None of that stuff pisses me off in the least. If I were getting paid to do what Cole does, I’d do the same thing. I have to disagree with Andrew, I don’t think there’s a damn thing “unethical” about any of it.
Fans just can’t handle “the business of sports” is all. Never have, never will. There are exceptions of course. Present company, for example. I think we all are pretty good at keeping an even keel with all this stuff, even when we start getting scared and shit (which, yeah, I am.) But the general public? Message Board Guy? There ALWAYS has to be a villain. And it’s usually the guy who stands to make “MORE THAN I’LL EVER MAKE IN MY LIFETIME!!!!” And/or the guy who by golly just isn’t smart enough to make shit happen as easily as he does on Madden.
Cole knows that. And he uses it to his advantage. Touch a couple of nerves and watch that traffic roll in.

RALPH:
Wang, I'm not saying Cole is making anything up. Far from it. I just think by not really having many if any direct quotes nothing is in any context. It is most definitely trolltastic.

My main argument is Cole's article is 100% coming from Brees' side and he's trying to present it as balanced and he got info from the Saints. I'd bet 100 bucks he got nothing from the Saints because the Saints never say shit about contracts.

I get Brees is trying to win the PR battle and good for him. I just wish more PEOPLE WOULD FUCKING SEE WHAT COLE IS DOING.

KEVIN:
I'm still being a Zen master at the moment.

HOWEVAH!!!!

I can some grey clouds in the distance, and let me tell you, if that storm cloud doesn't dissipate by March 5... to quote Dr. Sam Beckett, "Oh boy."

Question for Wang: Do you approve of Skip Bayless' constant trolling on everything? I get where you're coming from with your Cole assessment, but I understand Andrew's point.

I think the major problem is that the general public doesn't understand the difference between "a column" and "a story." Jason Cole has "a column." Whitlock has "a column." All those twats from Around the Horn and PTI and Skip, all of them write "a column." Nobody does a good enough job separating the two anymore, hence people getting worked up over Cole's trolling and taking it as a serious "report."

DAVE:
The general public is a bunch of fucktards. Did you see the beating I took on Saintsreport for my Arrington satire post? Morons didn't even realize the whole post was making a mockery of those fans who fly off the handle, jump to insane conclusions and think players like Arrington are future hall of famers. In other words, all of Saintsreport.

(Editor's Note: News breaks of "Scrutiny on the Bounty")

RALPH:
Be very very afriad over this bounty stuff. Old man Benson said cut that shit out and Loomis didn't. I'd say that's a fireable offense no? Loomis won't be GM by next Monday. At least Gregg Williams is gone but I think the 2011 Draft for the Saints is about to get blow up up Goodell because they won't have any picks.

KEVIN:
Uh...

Erm...

Hu...

SOMEBODY FUCKING HOLD ME!!!!!


ANDREW:
Yeah um. Not good. Although Benson just endorsed Loomis & Payton so at least the figure heads appear stable.


HANS:
Does anyone remember when all of a sudden Randy Mueller wasn't on the job anymore?

Rita probably makes all those decisions now...but maybe he got woken up (literally, I think he must nap as much as infants do) by his staff after hearing from the league and Loomis is already gone...


ANDREW:
We are fucked.

Saturday, March 3
WANG:
Kevin, I absolutely LOVE Skip Bayless. Oh, he pisses me off and makes me want to punch him in the face regularly. That’s when I know he’s on his game. Then a couple seconds later when I calm down, I tip my cap and say to the tee vee “Welp, ya got me. Nice job.”
I think you’re 100% right on most people not understanding the difference between a “column” and a “story.” People think everybody in the media is a “reporter” and should be held to the journalistic standards of reporters. You see it on the message boards every day. Half of them need to be told what’s fact and what’s opinion, they can’t figure it out themselves. They expect a writer to state “In my opinion...” or else they’ll hold the writer responsible for “stating opinion as fact” and being disingenuous or whatever. No, a writer’s under no obligation to continually state explicitly “this is my opinion” over and over again. It’s on you to know the difference, we were all taught the difference in 3rd fuckin’ grade. If you can’t distinguish between the two, that’s on you. (Not YOU, Kevin, I know you know the difference. I’m talking about people in general.)
The biggest part of it, IN MY OPINION, is that people just don’t care to pay close enough attention. These days people just skim shit as quick as they can and think they’ve got it. They don’t give a shit that there’s a difference between “could happen” and “will happen” and that kind of thing. It’s all the same, right? They don’t care to pay attention to all the little details that make all the difference. All that matters is whether or not what they THINK they heard/read is what they wanted to hear/read. If it is, it’s great. If not, it’s A BUNCH OF BULLSHIT FROM AN IDIOT HACK WHO OMG I CAN”T BELIEVE HE HAS A JOB!!!
Big picture, people are just stupid and lazy these days. Critical thinking is out, emotional OUTRAGE is in. But don’t dare call them on it because “I AIN’T STUPID, ASSHOLE! I’M JUST OFFENDED!!!”

RALPH:
Bayless will call for Payton to be fired. And I have to say if Loomis and he lied to nfl and benson they really should be. Of course as a Saints fan that scares the shit out of me but if I take my emotion out of it they probably should be.

I hope they aren't because they make my football great on the field. Still, I think everything is on the table as a possibility. This has only begun.

ANDREW:
I just don't think 100% morality is a requirement for the players/staff I root for. If you have bad eggs, can them. But consider who we root for. Stallworth killed someone. Connell was a thief. Will Smith assaulted his wife. Vilma had a weird story about a dead body in some NYC apt he owned.
It happens. We root for the emblem and all the flaws that go with it. We'll get punished and that'll suck, then we move on. Still got that Lombardi baby!!!

RALPH:
I'm with you a 100%, unless Saints are pulling a Sandusky I don't really give a shit but a think this story has many more chapters and right now I don't think it's a lock Loomis is GM in 3 months.

Maybe i'm wrong but I think alot of all those stories we hear about Payton/Loomis will now see the light of day.

ANDREW:
I hope not. I read your article Ralph and I'm scared shitless you are right.

Sunday, March 4
KEVIN:
The only this can get any worse is if Favre was the first one to Tweet out that Brees got franchised.
Yep, it's gonna be an awful Monday. Ralph, Dave...you may want to reinforce the bandwidth...


ANDREW:
I miss Jeff Duncan's Madonna jokes. That was wayyyyy better than this bullshit.

RALPH:
I'm thinking at least 60-70% of Saints fans have no idea of the hammer the NFL is going to drop on them. The NFL is going to walk the Saints to the town square and then make an example of them so no team will ever do bounties again.

People I think do not grasp that because every team has bounties, because most players just shrug it off as football, it all makes the penalty the Saints will get worse.

Goodell sees a chance to change the culture by getting rid of bounties and if he has to cripple the Saints so what?

Bad times boys, bad time.


Monday, March 5
RALPH:
This editorial as lead on NOLA.com proves the Saints fan base mostly has no clue what is about to drop on them.

http://www.nola.com/opinions/index.ssf/2012/03/go_saints_a_monologue_by_adria.html

Bounty Fest doesn't offend my morality and I'm not offended by it but I think a huge majority of fans don't realize the NFL is about to fucking hammer the Saints. They think, "Oh everyone does it so what?" They don't get or don't want to get the NFL has it's shot to change the culture of the NFL as far as hitting/violence/cheapshots and will use the Saints as example.

Because fans don't realize how bad this will be the penalties will only make them madder. If the Saints come out of this still a legitimate title contender I'll be very pleasantly surprised.

WANG:
Love ya, Ralph. But you’re overreacting. Is it a shitstorm? Absolutely. Will the Saints pay heavily? No doubt. Is it gonna ruin the franchise? No way. Goodell himself will never allow that to happen. It’s bad business to cripple one of the 32 teams in your league to the point of death. Everybody suffers in that case. Eddie De Bartolo’s shenanigans couldn’t kill the 49ers. Belichick’s shenanigans only barely affected the Patriots. Oh we’re gonna take the bone, and it’s gonna be deep and painful. And sure, Message Board Guy is gonna feel like the Saints are being persecuted and Goodell is trying to kill the franchise so they can move it to LA or whatever. But with all due respect man, I think you’re going overboard with the doom and gloom.
Goodell’s gotta balance the whole player safety thing (including all the litigation and potential monetary judgments) against public perception that he’s pussifying the league to the point where the customers don’t care anymore, and all the revenue that’ll lose. We think the league is invincible, and it’s just a perpetual money machine because Americans will never give up their NFL football. But people used to think the same thing about boxing. And baseball. Already the popular opinion is beginning to shift toward “This is just more Goodell turning the league into flag football.” Shockingly, people are lining up to defend the Saints so far this morning, at least to the degree of going all “Meh, this isn’t that big a deal” with it. I suspect that’s only gonna continue. And Goodell doesn’t have any choice but to take that into account. Oddly enough, if he bones the Saints TOO HARD over this, he risks public backlash. He also can’t just grind one of his 32 franchises into the ground, that’s not good for THE LEAGUE.
It’s a shitstorm, no doubt. But I think you’re buying into the hysteria, Ralph. This too shall pass. It’ll be painful, but ultimately it’ll just be one hell of a hard slap of the wrist, Goodell will claim that “the problem is solved” and everybody will get on with their lives.

RALPH:
It will pass Wang and with it will take any chance the Saints had of getting another Lombardi trophy with it. So yes it will pass but the party we've been having the last three years I fear is over.

How exactly will the saints remain elite with no draft picks, no cap room, and Payton gone for 4-6 weeks?


RALPH:
Stevie Johnson signed a five-year, $36.25 million deal that includes $19.5 million gtd and over $24 million in deal's first three years.

I believe the above is what Colston will want. Do the saints give it to him or will anyone else?

WANG:
Well, they’ve got Drew Brees. That’s how. They went 14-4 last year, right? And they were “without” (to a lesser extent) Payton for how long last year?
I’m not saying it’s not gonna hurt, but sheesh, people are acting like they’re gonna be 3-13 next year because of this.
Suspensions on defense could actually be a GOOD thing.

RALPH:
God I hope so Wang. My biggest fear is Loomis already botched the Brees contract so the front office is in chaos during the biggest off season since '06. My hope is Goodell focus is on individuals and not the 'Team'. Suspending a coach would be unprecedented so maybe Goodell will view that as the hammer and not the Draft picks. As in his thinking is huge fines, then suspensions, and Draft picks are last on his list.

Fun question

Would you rather have Payton suspended 8 games and only lose 2nd round pick this year or lighter Payton suspension and more picks taken away?

And when I say Payton is suspended I mean, He's in Dallas till November and not allowed contact with coaches/players. Carmichael is the coach for 8 games.

ANDREW:
I'm kind of with Ralph on this. The difference between winning & losing is so small in the NFL. Are they going to go from 13-3 to 3-13 because of this? No way. But they could easily go from 13-3 to 9-7. Or 8-8. They've done that with Brees at the helm in the past. Imagine they lose Nicks and Colston with no cap room or picks to replace them? I wasn't sure this offseason wouldn't bone the Saints without this bullshit happening.


RALPH:
Exactly. Also Loomis not getting Brees done to me is a huge blow to our belief that Loomis always would make the right moves and keep the Saints elite.
I wonder if Benson can plead for mercy about at least the draft picks by saying, "Look, I told them to stop. They didn't. Suspensions, fines are totally warranted but multiple draft choices could cripple us long term."

Maybe?


RALPH:
There is famous quote, "Man will always fail to understand something when his livelihood depends on not understanding it." Could we say the following about Saints fans, "They fail to understand Bounty Fest because their happiness depends on not understanding it."


DAVE:
Man, Ralph. You're going all Wilkerson on us.


RALPH:
Maybe, but I just get the feeling the Saints are going to have a really hard time recovering from this. Laugh at me hard if I'm wrong.



ANDREW:
No doubt about it. I include Wang in this category :)


KEVIN:
Hey, guys...I know Florio is a half-breed troll at this point, but...

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/03/03/irs-could-be-interested-in-undeclared-bounty-payments/

IRS. Oh fuck me.


ANDREW:
What do you guys think about Loomis & Payton? I'm a little worried they get canned. Benson says no but ESPN is calling for Payton's head.


RALPH:
Just that female reporter calling for Payton's head and as as my wife says, "Women shouldn't be allowed to cover sports." I will say as a guy who follows politics and have seen many people get support and say, "I won't resign" or, "I support him 100%" then more and more stuff comes out, pressure mounts and then they are canned.

I'm only about 70% sure come April Payton and Loomis are still with Saints. fairly high but not 100%

And remember...NO DISINTEGRATIONS!

Shit, it would take something this cataclysmic to rouse me into doing a photoshop.

Whatever.