Friday, September 2, 2011

Chain Gang: Saying Goodbye is so hard edition

Each week here at Hakim we bring together a group of Saints bloggers to discuss all things Saints during the week. Here is their email chain. This week we had Grandmaster Wang from moosedenied, Dave Cariello , Andrew Juge and Hansdat from Canal Street Chronicles, and Ralph Malbrough from Oh and the boss man Kevin Held.The Saints rolled the Raiders but Hartley will be out AGAIN. Is it blasphemy to say it's time to dump the little tweaker Garrett?

Ralph Malbrough:

Well that was a much more pleasant viewing experience. The Raiders weren't playing Richard Seymour but still the o-line looked as good as you could hope.
Colston looked pretty good.
The defensse still got pushed around a bit but I got the sense watching Shaun Rogers like he was playing juuust hard enough to look ok but really didn't give a shit. Hopefully come next Thursday he'll be fine.
The pass rush to me is still a huge issue and I'm not expecting Cameron Jordan to give them much yet. Not saying he's a bust but he won't be adding much to the d-line until October art the earliest.
Hartley tweaks a hip and that means it's Carney time? If so what player gets screwed out of a roster spot? And does Carney get a full season's pay for like two weeks work because he's on opening day roster?

GrandMaster Wang:
Sorry for the late reply. Busy day yesterday. Hopefully Hartley will be fine, because the last thing we need right now is to have to carry a second kicker, no matter who it is. Hell, they're already talking about carrying 2 fullbacks for crying out loud. And you know they're not gonna be able to stop themselves from carrying 4 tight ends like they do every year (personally I think 3 is plenty and it pisses me off every year when they keep 4.) Then on top of that you know they want to carry 6 wideouts. They might not be able to but you know they want to. Last thing we need is to have to try to find another roster spot.
As nice a story as Jed Collins is, and as nice a pickup as Korey Hall seemed to be, they need to pick one, screw carrying both. Also they need to make up their mind between Tyler Lorenzen and Tory Humphrey. Jimmy Graham is gonna be punking chumps with great frequency this year.
Thankfully, I've calmed down a little on the o-line. That performance Sunday night was exactly what I needed. Whew.
Defense still looks like shit. Ralph I think you're right, Rogers isn't gonna do any more than he has to until it counts. He knows he's not fighting for a roster spot or even a starting role.
Some speculation on the message boards about whether or not Patrick Robinson has "beaten out" Tracy Porter for the "starting" right corner and #22 being "demoted" to nickel. Thoughts? I'm not sure I'd call it a "demotion" per se, but that's what most people call it and I think it's not unreasonable for that to be the perception. As I recall, Porter is a UFA after this season. Hmmmmm. For that matter, I think Greer might be too.
DREW BREEEEES!!!! Take that, stooj.

Andrew Juge:
First off, can I just personally say how INFURIATING it's becoming to hear message board guy suggest that the Saints arbitrarily place player X on the PUP list. It's like the PUP list is some sign up sheet that your dead grandmother could get on. Hey... if she raises from the dead in the next couple months we can activate her after week 6!!! Dave this isn't directed at you, you just reminded me how much that pisses me off for no real good reason. I don't need to explain to smart guys like you how the PUP works so I'll stop there.
Anyway, thank GOD the offense found it's rhythm. I was starting to worry this team had the makings of the 2007 Saints. I'll spare you the reminder of how that season started.
Wang, I'm with you on the 2 fullbacks. I feel like this is the Times-Pic (Tripplett, Jeff No Funcan)'s desperate attempt to show they know more than the "idiot blogger". Hey guys, darkhorse prediction, Saints keep 2 fullbacks for the first time in 6 years!! That's like the local weatherman saying there's a 30% chance of rain. Why would the Saints keep 2 fullbacks? That position is utterly useless to them. Why not just put Jed Collins on the practice squad? Are they really afraid to lose him to someone else by exposing him to the waiver wire? They shouldn't be. And are they really going to keep Collins over a guy like Nate Bussey that provides infinite more ability on special teams? Again, no. It's almost like the beat writers are praying the Saints make an idiotic roster move to make them look like crystal ball geniuses. Don't count on it.
Finally, I'm really hoping the Saints find a tight end in final cuts as the # because Humphrey and Lorenzen both suck. And Patrick Robinson is by far our best cornerback right now.

Ralph Malbrough:
I'm really starting to worry about the corners. I have this sinking feeling that Greer 2009 was a career year. It happens. He was awesome and even the advanced stat guys at Football Outsiders loved him and rated him #2 cb behind Revis. Even though he was injured in 2010 I'm beginning to think he's just a very average corner who had a great season. So If Greer is average and Porter is still getting up to speed it means our secondary might be in a world of hurt. That Robinson pick doesn't look to crazy now like I thought it did. Of course it's only right if Robinson can play.
There is no way on God's green earth the Saints are keeping two fullbacks. If they are going to do that they might as well sign me. I can stand on the sideline and clap and I'll even do it for the rookie minimum.
I know he's struggled in the preseason mostly and is Gregg Williams 2011 whipping boy but I really like Martez Wilson. He has no idea really what's doing he reminds me of Winfred Tubbs body wise.
As bad as the run defense has been the last two weeks, the Saints were ok against it in 2010 and while the Lynch run is what everybody remembers they forget the Saints stone cold shut down Atlanta and Michael Turner a few weeks before on Monday night. They were 16th against run last year so I'll believe in that until they get gashed in a game that counts.
Right now my concerns are
1. CB
2. O line
3. Run defense
And each one has a credible solution of a guy we know has a proven record except o-line.
1. Porter and Greer have been good at CB
3. Rogers/ Franklin have been studs in recent past

Grandmaster Wang:
J-Dunc: Saints about to sign John Kasay. Fuck.

Ralph Malbrough:

Wang, Hartley wining the NFC Title and his Super Bowl kicks are the equivalent of winning the Masters in golf and getting a 5-yr exemption. I can't just up and quit the little Tweaker. How dare you sir?

And how dare Sean Payton sign John Casey? The Saints only have one octogenarian emergency kicker named John and it's Carney.
Grandmaster Wang:
Well call me a heartless asshole (guilty as charged) but I'll give him an exemption on the occasional shank, but not being able to play is too much. Adderall suspension in 09, the yips in 10, now a non-contact injury. Three strikes. I'll give him a fourth because of 09, but the team cannot afford to have to scramble for a fucking kicker every year. If Josh Jasper or an equivalent becomes available, I think you need to give serious consideration to moving on. I'll always have a place in my heart for the little douche, but a place on the roster is a whole different story. Kickers need to be available 100% of the time, and this is the third straight year now that Hartley hasn't been. In my opinion, that's way beyond unacceptable for a kicker.

Ralph Malbrough
You are heartless but I'd consider Josh Jasper if it came to that. Casey isn't a bad option though considering how many close games the Saints were in last year. I've got to believe Kasey wouldn't sign unless he was assured of a opening day roster spot.

Kevin Held:
Whenever I read "Josh Jasper," I think of the Jasper Johns episode of The Simpsons, where Homer became an abstract artist. "NOT THE REICHSTAG!"

Ralph Malbrough:
So Alex Brown gets whacked and I can see the reasoning in that it's better to play Cameron Jordan and get him experience while he struggles then play Brown who struggles and has no upside at all.

Andrew Juge:

hey guys, we should TOTALLY put Garrett Hartley on the PUP list now that he's tweaked something. I can't believe Sean Payton hasn't thought of that. We need him on PUP! SO OBVIOUS. That's totally legal right? We can have him after week 6 if Kasay sucks. I'm going to blog further on Wang's point about GH not playing a full season. I agree. First addarall, then a slump and now a non contact injury. Either you're a kicker that gets through a season or you're not. Hartley is dangerously close to being 0 for 4 on that front now. It really is unacceptable.


Message Board Guy

PS - Ralph, you called Brown getting peaced. Total kudos on that. Didn't see it coming. And no doubt, I'd rather Jordan's growing pains than Brown's he should known betters.

Ralph Malbrough:

Andrew, I can't really give myself to much props on Alex Brown as I thought it but actually took the paragraph out of my last WWL column from last week. Dam, I hate it when I get something right and it's not out there on the interwebs to scream, "This asshole Ralph is RIGHT TWICE A YEAR!"

I actually think you and Wang are right about Hartley in that Payton won't put up with him not playing the whole year much longer. My attitude about Hartley is what Dave Chappele said about Michael Jackson being accused of molesting kids when asked if he was guilty...

"He made Thriller man. Thriller."

Hartley, he won the Saints an NFC Title man. The NFC TITLE...

My judgment is forever clouded by the single greatest experience I've ever had in the Superdome. I won't let your facts get in the way of my truth.

I love you Garrett you little tweaker...

Andrew Juge:
I just hope Bobby Hebert is talking out of his ass (which occurs 83% of the time) when he says Hartley is out 6-8 weeks. If that's true, he needs to go on IR. No way the Saints are holding up 2 roster spots on kickers for 6-8 weeks.

Kevin Held:
Was Hebert's QB rating even that high? And yes, if Hartley looks like he's out for that long, put his ass on IR.

Ralph Malbrough:
could be talking out his ass but when I worked with Bobby he wasn't an Adam Schefter type chasing stories so I'd imagine he got it from a pretty solid source from the Saints ie Payton if not the Saints will bring the rain of shit down on him because Payton flips the fuck out if injury info goes on WWL without his approval.

Andrew Juge:
He's since deleted the tweet so it sounds like the rain of shit may have already happened...

Ralph Malbrough:
BAAAWWWWW! I haven't worked at WWL870 since 2005 and I still know it like the back of once crippled left hand.

Kevin Held:
My "guy who knows a guy" is saying 4-6 weeks. Still TBD. Yeah, put him on the IR.

Grandmaster Wang:
Release him. Ride Kasay and wait for Josh Jasper to come available.

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